ofcourse! stereotypes exist for a reason, I understand. But as the article points out stereotypes aren't always correct- and if they lead to misunderstandings and generalisations which aren't true- are they always useful?
Fair point. I would say that the old stereotypes are still applicable more often than not, and as such are useful. But they might not be in the future, since the way we act as men and women IS actually changing. For which I am very grateful. "The patriarchy" does not only suck for women, but for most men as well.
So much of what we believe is based off of these oversimplified rules and theories that are passed down over the years, usually serving some larger purpose by those sharing the message.
We see this even today with terms bandied about like masculinity and femininity trying to easily describe nuanced individual behaviors of human beings.
It’s all more detrimental than helpful.
Interesting factoid on female promiscuity: researchers believe that the shape and size of the human penis and testes suggests there was a good amount of sexual competition with women likely having multiple partners. So while the women were still likely choosy of their partner given they would be saddled with the life and death risk of pregnancy, they were probably still sampling from multiple mates.
responding to your comment, "I believe it's a myth that men want more sex than women."
As a sex and intimacy coach, I see the stereotypes play out in my sessions every week. Men are by far, the ones who want more sex than their female partners. The reasons for that are varied and nuanced but that's my experience. There are always exceptions and changing cultural shifts but right now the stereotypes hold up (generally speaking).
Thanks for your input. I'm wondering if women's activation of desire is different, and if activated they would want just as much sex as the men? I think women shut down easier than men generally when it comes to sex- perhaps this is the pattern that you're seeing in your clients? I have a new model of desire coming out soon which might give a new perspective on this relating pattern for you, I'm curious to see what your thoughts are when it's released!
The important thing is not infidelity itself but the reasons for it. One may cheat simply for thrill and sexual variety, but one may also cheat because sexual needs are not met in the relationship, or because he or she is looking to secure another mate before breaking up. It is here that men and women have different sexual strategies.
If I remember correctly, the studies in psychology show a strong correlation between sexual dissatisfaction in the relationship and female sexual infidelity, but there is no such correlation for men.
I think still though men on average just want more sex with more women. And women do infidelity for other reasons more. Men might do infidelity less because opportunities are fewer
Most sexologists seems to agree that about 70% of men in relationships are the higher libido partner, and women 30%. Hormone reviews confirm men have MANY times more testosterone than women and have much more of a spontaneous desire for sex. Also, women’s libido drops when in monogamous relationship after the honeymoon period, again as per consensus amongst clinical psychologists and sexologists. You just seem to making a general claim based on personal beliefs which is fine, but it seems to run counter to consensus. (See Emily Nagoski, Laurie Watson, George Faller, etc.)
Same about the infidelity piece. Macklen Murphy seems to be one of the most trustworthy sources on the infidelity literature and he says men cheat more by sth like a 2 to 1 ratio. I’m quoting off memory but it’s definitely men more and not equal.
thank you for highlighting this! I am currently working on a new model of desire which will explain why we have these misconceptions, and gives a brand new framework for working with, and understanding desire. Please follow along as I create it as I would love your viewpoints and comments on it and to see if it might change your mind about a few things!
I think that’s research/evidence based consensus, not misconceptions but I’ll follow along. That’ll be a high bar to overturn, but I’m always curious and open to new ideas. Looking forward to it.
That might be the case. And my understanding of this article is that it’s saying when differences like this exist it’s not because men and women are fundamentally (or biologically) different. It’s because societal factors shape us toward that behaviour.
I don’t know. I always thought it would make sense for more men to visit hookers but I think most of the have sex for ego affirmation not because they like sex
This was a fascinating read—love how it challenges tired gender clichés with actual research instead of just repeating cultural narratives. The idea that power is the real driver behind infidelity rather than gender makes so much sense. Historically, men had more access to power, which shaped the perception that they’re the bigger cheaters. But when women gain financial and social autonomy, the stats level out.
And the study about men being more sexually satisfied in relationships? That’s gold. It dismantles the myth that men are wired for endless variety while women are the ones pushing for commitment. Turns out, stability and emotional connection make sex better for men too—who knew? (Well, science did.)
I think novelty is either a need or desire for all sexes. I’ve oftentimes joked that the only way I would cheat would be if I had the opportunity, knowing that that with my age, income, and the that I’ve seen myself naked, I would never have an opportunity. And, so far, I’ve been correct. I also think cheating comes at a great cost of time and energy, among the other problems that can ruin lives and families when one is caught. I also think you’re right about the economic factors involved in who cheats. At one level for me, sex with another person other than your significant other is only one part of cheating. The bigger aspect of cheating is the lying about it. Is it cheating if you have permission?
To take up your last point, if you are acting with the full knowledge and permission of your significant other at best it is a spoiling of vows or a lowering of morals. The pain of cheating is the breaking of trust and the damage that causes. If there is openness the main potential issue is one of jealousy especially if the experience is better than one has at home. For many couples an open relationship works, some couples wanting to share each experience together, others just want to know it’s happening. On the other hand some relationships are damaged if you communicate your thoughts and desires with a partner who is not your significant other. My point would be we all draw lines at different points, if those lines are close together, whatever kind of relationship you have things will go well. Problems happen when those lines are further apart
This sounds good on paper, but there is a reason we do generalizations: It's because it's useful.
ofcourse! stereotypes exist for a reason, I understand. But as the article points out stereotypes aren't always correct- and if they lead to misunderstandings and generalisations which aren't true- are they always useful?
Fair point. I would say that the old stereotypes are still applicable more often than not, and as such are useful. But they might not be in the future, since the way we act as men and women IS actually changing. For which I am very grateful. "The patriarchy" does not only suck for women, but for most men as well.
As my article points out times have already changed and we are changing with them!
Great minds think alike — nice article. :)
thank you! Yes I thought you'd agree based on our other interactions!
So much of what we believe is based off of these oversimplified rules and theories that are passed down over the years, usually serving some larger purpose by those sharing the message.
We see this even today with terms bandied about like masculinity and femininity trying to easily describe nuanced individual behaviors of human beings.
It’s all more detrimental than helpful.
Interesting factoid on female promiscuity: researchers believe that the shape and size of the human penis and testes suggests there was a good amount of sexual competition with women likely having multiple partners. So while the women were still likely choosy of their partner given they would be saddled with the life and death risk of pregnancy, they were probably still sampling from multiple mates.
100% it’s so fascinating to think that our behaviour can shape our bodies over time. Evolution is incredible!
responding to your comment, "I believe it's a myth that men want more sex than women."
As a sex and intimacy coach, I see the stereotypes play out in my sessions every week. Men are by far, the ones who want more sex than their female partners. The reasons for that are varied and nuanced but that's my experience. There are always exceptions and changing cultural shifts but right now the stereotypes hold up (generally speaking).
Thanks for your input. I'm wondering if women's activation of desire is different, and if activated they would want just as much sex as the men? I think women shut down easier than men generally when it comes to sex- perhaps this is the pattern that you're seeing in your clients? I have a new model of desire coming out soon which might give a new perspective on this relating pattern for you, I'm curious to see what your thoughts are when it's released!
The important thing is not infidelity itself but the reasons for it. One may cheat simply for thrill and sexual variety, but one may also cheat because sexual needs are not met in the relationship, or because he or she is looking to secure another mate before breaking up. It is here that men and women have different sexual strategies.
I'm curious to hear more about the different sexual strategies, can you tell me more?
If I remember correctly, the studies in psychology show a strong correlation between sexual dissatisfaction in the relationship and female sexual infidelity, but there is no such correlation for men.
I remember reading about this too, but something tells me this idea has since changed. I'll have to review it again, thanks for the inspiration!
I'd love to read about it if you find anything.
i'll be sure to let you know! i've just put it on my list for future substack articles to write
I think still though men on average just want more sex with more women. And women do infidelity for other reasons more. Men might do infidelity less because opportunities are fewer
I believe it's a myth that men want more sex than women.
Most sexologists seems to agree that about 70% of men in relationships are the higher libido partner, and women 30%. Hormone reviews confirm men have MANY times more testosterone than women and have much more of a spontaneous desire for sex. Also, women’s libido drops when in monogamous relationship after the honeymoon period, again as per consensus amongst clinical psychologists and sexologists. You just seem to making a general claim based on personal beliefs which is fine, but it seems to run counter to consensus. (See Emily Nagoski, Laurie Watson, George Faller, etc.)
Same about the infidelity piece. Macklen Murphy seems to be one of the most trustworthy sources on the infidelity literature and he says men cheat more by sth like a 2 to 1 ratio. I’m quoting off memory but it’s definitely men more and not equal.
thank you for highlighting this! I am currently working on a new model of desire which will explain why we have these misconceptions, and gives a brand new framework for working with, and understanding desire. Please follow along as I create it as I would love your viewpoints and comments on it and to see if it might change your mind about a few things!
I think that’s research/evidence based consensus, not misconceptions but I’ll follow along. That’ll be a high bar to overturn, but I’m always curious and open to new ideas. Looking forward to it.
thanks! since you seem sceptical I would love your input especially, as no doubt you will pull me up on anything that feels incorrect!
I think men's desire for sex is generally less dependent on the context (relational, environmental...). Women have more sensitive brakes.
I agree! This is part of my new model of desire...stay tuned
That might be the case. And my understanding of this article is that it’s saying when differences like this exist it’s not because men and women are fundamentally (or biologically) different. It’s because societal factors shape us toward that behaviour.
I don’t think so men just like screwing around .
I think *you* and the men you know might like it- doesn't mean it's true for all men.
I don’t know. I always thought it would make sense for more men to visit hookers but I think most of the have sex for ego affirmation not because they like sex
This was a fascinating read—love how it challenges tired gender clichés with actual research instead of just repeating cultural narratives. The idea that power is the real driver behind infidelity rather than gender makes so much sense. Historically, men had more access to power, which shaped the perception that they’re the bigger cheaters. But when women gain financial and social autonomy, the stats level out.
And the study about men being more sexually satisfied in relationships? That’s gold. It dismantles the myth that men are wired for endless variety while women are the ones pushing for commitment. Turns out, stability and emotional connection make sex better for men too—who knew? (Well, science did.)
I think novelty is either a need or desire for all sexes. I’ve oftentimes joked that the only way I would cheat would be if I had the opportunity, knowing that that with my age, income, and the that I’ve seen myself naked, I would never have an opportunity. And, so far, I’ve been correct. I also think cheating comes at a great cost of time and energy, among the other problems that can ruin lives and families when one is caught. I also think you’re right about the economic factors involved in who cheats. At one level for me, sex with another person other than your significant other is only one part of cheating. The bigger aspect of cheating is the lying about it. Is it cheating if you have permission?
To take up your last point, if you are acting with the full knowledge and permission of your significant other at best it is a spoiling of vows or a lowering of morals. The pain of cheating is the breaking of trust and the damage that causes. If there is openness the main potential issue is one of jealousy especially if the experience is better than one has at home. For many couples an open relationship works, some couples wanting to share each experience together, others just want to know it’s happening. On the other hand some relationships are damaged if you communicate your thoughts and desires with a partner who is not your significant other. My point would be we all draw lines at different points, if those lines are close together, whatever kind of relationship you have things will go well. Problems happen when those lines are further apart